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    Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

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    Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by Ren's View on Fri Sep 23, 2016 6:12 am

    I wanted to bring Craig Chalquist's slide show to this board. I start my Watching Apocalypse site with it, because I think Craig sets a tone for looking into the depths of what this moment in time is all about for us, human beings, with minds that we continue to struggle to understand.  Minds that help to create these moments.

    Craig doesn't give answers to our problems, but I do think he offers methods -- what I'd consider metaphorical, symbolic methods -- for self and societal exploration that we can employ for ourselves to help us make sense of things, many of which are well beyond our capacities to control. 

    So, without further introduction, here's Craig:

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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by dleet on Fri Sep 23, 2016 6:33 am

    Excellent segway, and great resources to formulate a responsible reply, which is coming-- I have a few other pokers in the fire and have to pound out some points in the iron pokers (origin of iron out?).
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by Ren's View on Fri Sep 23, 2016 6:41 am

    I like looking at the box you have for an avatar, by the way.  I can do this blinking thing where first I'm looking down, then looking up, then looking sideways from different sides at it.  I s'pose that's why you chose it.
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by dleet on Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:08 pm

    Yes, it's supposed to represent perspective or, shadows (which do affect perspectives and images),POVs , sunlight, and all the other variances. It's called a Necker Cube, and I learned of it in a book entitled "Einstein for Beginners". However, I knew of the effect earlier when I was in school, called Mosaics- was one of my freshman year assignments. Tempura or thick watercolor was the medium. I think the failure is the overbearing dark parallelogram. I wanted to draw the observer's focus to the center first, which is stupid anyhow, because everyone goes to the center first, but then to over emphasize my failure was even dumber. However, the professor reserved my piece and two others. He always reserved 3 pieces after each assignment to photograph and record. Next year we got our pieces back. I said pieces because I had more reserved than any other student, all 30 of us of the 100 in UC's DAA, now DAAP. I guess I used to have game.
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by dleet on Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:41 am

    Perception is also a function of what is shown or given daylight. Harvard study confirms, 2/3rds of media coverage is of nonsensee, not policies, not capabilities, not accomplishments.
    Harvard studies are not read by the voters that support Trump, so they have no idea that they know nothing.That's kind of a strange phrase, close to 'they don't know what they don't know' which is vague, 'they don't know how much they don't know' with a quantifier sounds better, thanks, Frege.
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by Ren's View on Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:33 am

    When I look at the whole body of thought about knowing, I find it difficult to ignore that everything we think we know is a subjective conjuration of some sort.  In one sense, it's all a kind of neurological interaction that makes representations of sensory inputs.  Representations I've been learning to construct since birth. I recognize the difficulty involved, that what's in my head cannot actually be put into a corporeal form inside where all this neural activity is taking place, form that we would generally associate with thingness.  What it actually is remains a mystery, and so we get the rise of whole bodies of investigation with experts like Freud and Jung at the early stages, who try to tell us about this mystery.  Thus rises the specter of the spiritual.  And naming the invisible spiritual then becomes a thingness of sorts in the mind.  So, what I'm trying to say is I don't have any problem imagining that whatever I think I know is some conjuration of no-thing.  I think we are all in that state of mind all the time.

    I don't imagine the people who are drawn by whatever it is that Trump is doing that appeals to them are much concerned about what the know they know or don't know.  It's probably much more visceral than that.  Probably something more like a need for comfort and feeling safe is being satisfied.  Explanations like Lakoff's strict parent conditioning that gives children a protective authoritarian base to return to, rather than the nurturing of the child to take responsibility to figure out the world for herself, is more along the lines of the dynamics that we are watching unfold.  Of course that is and must be speculation on my part.  Those who rely on knowing of the sort the Harvard Study offers are in a different psycho dynamic set.  In a large voting population such as ours, democracy sometimes comes down to how many in the population are conditioned by a certain psycho dynamic set, and who among those seeking to rule, can figure out what that set is, and how to appeal to it.

    The way I'm seeing it, nothing gives Trump more legitimacy with the set he seems to appeal to than all this work by the hated elites the anti intellectual set sees as the 'other' in this quagmire to figure out The Donald, or for that matter, a previous caricatured figure that comes to mind, Sarah Palin. Of course they don't 'get' that these people are ridiculous to 'the other.'

    Whatever their sense of certainty may be grounded in, I doubt it can be assailed by rational skepticism, nor will it be shamed by the usual shaming methods that work for those who use their minds in a responsible way to make sense of the world (of course I think I'm one of those).  Thus we get this topsy turvy problem of personal responsibility as an idea and a question, and then the various answers as to how one goes about taking it, which appear to differ given the differing psycho dynamic environments of the individual minds. So the rational George Lakoff offers us the Strict Parent and Nurturing Parent models to help rational thinkers make sense of it. Ever try to see what happens when you offer that framework of thought to a Trump adherent?  It's interesting. 

    And, when we don't see people doing it our way they must be stupid, or evil, or something we can't tolerate.  I've been on the receiving end of that in a few physically confrontive situations that I managed to survive without much personal damage before I figured out how to read the signals and de-fuse the situation before it got violent, or simply avoid it before I ever get into it.  But sometimes the situation will just ambush me.  So I've had to learn to be creative, because I don't have guns and other violent measures to resort to as a solution.
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by dleet on Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:45 am

    The strict father is in the policing of black people and the coverage of it in the media. "Follow orders or I'll kill you" then if you do follow orders I still might kill you because you weren't fast enough or you moved too fast or I just want to kill you because you're black. Why is it just fine to shoot and kill a guy that was sitting in his car waiting for his kid? A: "He had a gun, or looked like a gun" and? so what? In an open carry state, sitting in a car is what risk and to whom? Cops rushing in to kill first because they are already in kill mode (even if the shooter cop is black he is in kill mode for other blacks, it's sop).
    A little girl was being pulled by her hair all over a grocery store while screaming and crying "Please daddy,stop, I won't do it again, please daddy"* but no he just kept and was filmed, a cop called, he said he can do nothing because her hair was not pulled out and no open wounds. The dad says "I was beaten as a kid and I'm just fine". Right
    The differences I see are getting so animated, it does resemble the '60s and various 'Others' like hippies, stoners, draft protesters, anti-war protesters, or similar to pre-Sumpter tension, only today single shot guns are now semi-auto to fully automatic.

    A 12-year-old's last words as related by his killer of 27 years ago in '89 after he had raped him the boy asked "What did I do wrong?" then the guy put a bullet in his head and buried him. He was caught in a kiddie porn sting, he had DNA still on his stuff from the boy he killed.
    "What did I do wrong?" set me off into an uncontrollable crying spell I had never had before. His brother and friend were riding to the stream, the killer saw them pass by and waited, put a bag over his victim when they came back by him and threatened the others with his gun unless they ran away. His brother had and has to live with those last memories. I still tear up just from writing his quote. "What did I do wrong?" summarizes many's current positions in life. Oh, I forgot, we're the civilized species, top of the food chain, right.
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by dleet on Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:30 am

    10 rational positions Why does there have to be a word like "atheist" but no need for a word clarifying an anti-astrology POV? -Harris "I'm against absurdity" is ok but atheist is not.  
    Religious folks think "oh well, life after death will be great" so don't worry too much about this one. The parents that poison their kids by denying insulin think, "Now he/she is in a better place". Knowing that this is all there is, means we value life more. All the religious folks killing each other and themselves does not hold up in a philosophical or logic formula.
    Pinker is here too.


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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by Ren's View on Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:29 am

    Once a person has experienced the dignity of being given mutual respect, and nurtured towards self motivation and personal responsibility for one's own actions, I'm fairly certain there's no going backwards to the strict parent mold. 

    Civilization itself is not structured to nurture mutual respect, that would also involve self respect.  Most civilized institutions work in the strict parent, authoritarian framework.   If institutions were set up so that people could, at all times, make personal, ethical choices about what they are doing to keep the institution working, the result would be inefficient from the management standpoint.  The management goals would be difficult to achieve unless they by chance happened to coincide with the ethical and moral basis that the body of people involved possess together.

    So what, then, happens from that predicament if you are the management class? 

    Fundamentally, a whole cultural system must be set up to convince people from birth they are not. worthy of respect.

    Then you capture people and drag them over in chains in the holds of slave ships and make them work, driven by fear with whips, and at the point of a gun.  Also you bring impoverished people over to the newly found, militarily invaded, genocidally-cleansed land of opportunity to work for you, the managers, as indentured servants, with a debt that takes them years to pay off. If it's ever paid off, you own all the land anyway, so all they get at that point is wage slavery or share cropping. 

    Latest twist on that scenario, offer young people loans so they can get educations so they can work in the institutions as specialists, or as trained monkeys if you will, cogs in the machine trained in the now carefully correlated and corporate-managed educational institutions; you pass laws so that they can't go bankrupt on their education loans, even if they find that their morals and ethics -- if any happen to survive the strict parent cultural programming -- are being challenged when they do finally find some work, begging with carefully contrived resumes to assure the management that their civilized morals and worth ethics are intact, so they must keep working. Working to pay off all that monumental debt accrued while attending public colleges who's calculated underfunding has caused them to raise tuitions endlessly while cutting liberation-enhancing liberal arts programs and focusing only on corporate training education, which include the sciences.  Working to pay off that monumental debt to the financial institution arm of your civilization while also going into debt for a home, a car, a family of their own.  It's no longer called indentured servitude or slavery.  They are simply civilized citizens.

    For those that don't manage to scramble to that minimal pedastal?  Well, there's the prisons, there's the laws that saddled them for life with a felony and all the de-civilized aspects of that category, where breaking the law becomes the only survival alternative.  Thus create the structure for endless rounds of prisoners serving time in a growing private corporate prison system.  Structural racism, or perhaps a cleaner European phrase, structural classism.

    All of that, by the way, is the underlying story behind Eric Wolf's Europe and the People Without History.
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by Ren's View on Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:30 am

    dleet wrote:10 rational positions Why does there have to be a word like "atheist" but no need for a word clarifying an anti-astrology POV? -Harris "I'm against absurdity" is ok but atheist is not.  
    Religious folks think oh well life after death will be great so don't worry too much about this one. The parents that poison their kids by denying insulin think "Now he/she is in a better place. Knowing that this is all there is means we value life more, so all the religious killing each other does not hold up in a philosophical or logic formula
    Pinker is here too.

    There doesn't have to be, people accept it.
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by Ren's View on Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:28 am

    I wonder if these folks will outlive their ruling institutions?


    Protesters block Interstate 277 on Thursday during a third night of unrest following Tuesday’s police killing of Keith Lamont Scott in Charlotte, N.C. (Gerry Broome / AP)


    Chris Hedges writes an article this morning showing that he thinks we've arrived at a worse state than the one I described in my above post, post #9.  He differentiates the corporate state from the capitalist-ordered state created by global capitalism as defined in Wolf's Europe and the People Without History.  I'm not sure I can see that logical refinement, but anyway, here's Chris.  By the way, the article follows that above picture:


    Police Killings Won’t Stop



    Chris Hedges wrote:
    The corporate state, no matter how many protests take place in American cities over the murder of unarmed citizens, will put no restraints on the police or the organs of security and surveillance. It will not protect the victims of state violence. It will continue to grant broader powers and greater resources to militarized police departments and internal security forces such as Homeland Security. Force, along with the systems of indoctrination and propaganda, is the last prop that keeps the corporate elites in power. These elites will do nothing to diminish the mechanisms necessary for their control.
     
    The corporate state, by pillaging the nation, has destroyed capitalism’s traditional forms of social control. The population is integrated into a capitalist democracy by decent wages and employment opportunities, labor unions, mass-produced consumer products, a modest say in governance, mechanisms for marginal reform, pensions, affordable health care, a judiciary that is not utterly subservient to the elites and corporate power, the possibility for social, political and economic advancement, good public education, arts funding and a public broadcasting system that gives a platform to those who are not in service to the elites. These elements make possible the common good, or at least the perception of the common good.





    There's a huge argument anyone can tap into, if they know where to look, or at the least, discover where to look, that analyzes the nature of corporate institutions and compares them to the principles of laissez faire capitalism's principles.  Within that argument, a fundamental axiom is advanced that management of an institution involves managing to maintain it at all costs, even the costs of innovation that are fundamental to the principles of laissez faire, competitive capitalism.  So the wealthy corporations, once wealth is achieved in this laissez faire system, can buy off the innovations of the entrepreneurs of the system and incorporate them as they see fit, within the efficiency costs of their operations, into their corporate orgranization, thus killing off the competition.  Unfortunately another part of that larger argument also recognizes that laissez faire competitive capitalism is an artificial construct to begin with.  Thus the whole argument falls apart if the pretense of an independent laissez faire principle is advanced as part of the logic that laissez faire as a principle can possibly exist without the structural management of the corporate state to preserve it.



    This, by the way, is an example of the problems that arise with atomistic, or compartmentalized thinking.  One constructs arguments with parts of a whole, as if those parts can exist independently of the whole.  I only mention this because one of my fundamental arguments for coming to a revolutionary view of what we humans are doing to this planet is that we need to raise our consciousness with a new paradigm, which I feel will be made possible by developing an ecological language.  That is, a language that recognizes that notion of systemic connectedness to a whole, thus looking for connections, rather than convenient disconnections to make our points. The integrity of the whole then becomes a kind of moral and ethical imperative in our efforts to communicate.  And our imaginations will be challenged to maintain this integrity, which further enhances our common sense intelligence about what's taking place. Chris is usually pretty good about this, but sometimes he falls back into the convenience of making arbitrary disconnections to illustrate his points.



    But, tossing that conundrum aside, I think Chris is bringing to light a kind of truth here about institutions and their eventual, inevitable growth to this state of tyrannical control when their survival is at stake.  Another way of expressing that is to look at the principle of hegemony, which brings the population into the picture under the corporate rule umbrella.  Here's a guy who spent a career in the military, so he experienced authority existentially for over twenty years.  Stan Goff's talk on Exterminism:



    Stan Goff wrote:(Stan started this little riff with the following from Steven Biko):

    “The most potent weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed.”

    It’s much easier to exercise control over a population whenever they consent to their own domination. They sort of accept the official story, accept the official ideology and then we all just sort of go around and cooperate. That kind of control, where we internalize the control, is hegemony. Where when I come up and hold a gun on you and you do it out of naked fear, that’s coercion. And the idea is you’ve got sort of hegemony on one pole exercising ruling class power, and coercion on the other pole, and as hegemony fails then coercion becomes the more prominent instrument.




    In the article, Chris shifts back to the global systemic view in his next paragraph, and goes on from there with a decent, systemic argument:

    Chris Hedges wrote:
    Global capitalism, however, is not concerned with the cohesion of the nation-state. The relentless quest for profit trumps internal stability. Everything and everyone is pillaged and harvested for profit. Democracy is a mirage, a useful fiction to keep the population passive and compliant. Propaganda, including entertainment and spectacle, and coercion through state-administered surveillance and violence are the primary tools of governance. This is why, despite years of egregious police violence, there is no effective reform.

    Propaganda is not solely about instilling an opinion. It is also about appropriating the aspirations of the citizenry into the vocabulary of the power elite. The Clintons and Barack Obama built their careers mastering this duplicity. They speak in words that reflect the concerns of the citizenry, while pushing through programs and legislation that mock those concerns. This has been especially true in the long campaign to curb excessive police force. The liberal elites preach “tolerance” and “professionalism” and promote “diversity.” But they do not challenge the structural racism and economic exploitation that are the causes of our crisis. They treat the abuses of corporate oppression as if they were minor administrative defects rather than essential components of corporate power.

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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by dleet on Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:48 am

    Post-institutional failure example- Privatization has serious consequences for the slaves,Take the spread of for-profit probation companies, which are relied on by more than 1,000 courts to sentence hundreds of thousands of people to probation, often because of unpaid fines for traffic tickets and other minor infractions. For-profit companies such as Judicial Correction Services don’t charge the courts or towns for their services, which may seem appealing to elected officials. Instead, they make money by tacking on fees to the initial traffic ticket.

    When Americans are unable to pay those fees, they can end up behind bars. In one case, a woman was arrested seven times​, served 25 days in jail and paid $640 after writing a check for $28.93 that bounced. [American Exceptionalism-dt]

    Existing services that are privatized also often become much more expensive for consumers, In the Public Interest found.

    Take the GED, a high-school equivalency test that was developed during World War II as a way to help returning U.S. soldiers and sailors demonstrate that they had the basic high school skills employers wanted. It was a pen-and-paper test that cost $30 to take — until it was privatized.

    In 2014, the nonprofit American Council on Education outsourced the test to the for-profit education company Pearson. The cost of taking the GED jumped $120 and switched to computer-based testing. Since then, the number of people taking the GED have plunged by two-thirds, along with the percentage of those who pass it.
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by dleet on Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:57 am

    dleet wrote:Post-institutional failure example- Privatization has serious consequences for the slaves,Take the spread of for-profit probation companies, which are relied on by more than 1,000 courts to sentence hundreds of thousands of people to probation, often because of unpaid fines for traffic tickets and other minor infractions. For-profit companies such as Judicial Correction Services don’t charge the courts or towns for their services, which may seem appealing to elected officials. Instead, they make money by tacking on fees to the initial traffic ticket.

    When Americans are unable to pay those fees, they can end up behind bars. In one case, a woman was arrested seven times, served 25 days in jail and paid $640 after writing a check for $28.93 that bounced. [American Exceptionalism-dt]

    Existing services that are privatized also often become much more expensive for consumers, In the Public Interest found.

    Take the GED, a high-school equivalency test that was developed during World War II as a way to help returning U.S. soldiers and sailors demonstrate that they had the basic high school skills employers wanted. It was a pen-and-paper test that cost $30 to take — until it was privatized.

    In 2014, the nonprofit American Council on Education outsourced the test to the for-profit education company Pearson. The cost of taking the GED jumped $120 and switched to computer-based testing. Since then, the number of people taking the GED have plunged by two-thirds, along with the percentage of those who pass it.
    With its latest effort at privatization, the IRS said that its four private collections companies would have to abide by the consumer protection provisions in the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. Yet debt collectors are no strangers to breaking the provisions in the law, with the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau collecting $13 million in 2014 in fines for “egregious debt collection violations.”
    This is the bureau Trump wants to close, so his collections racket can proceed unimpeded. He is best friends with bounty hunters/WWE wrestlers, and sometimes they are both.
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by dleet on Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:58 am

    dleet wrote:
    dleet wrote:Post-institutional failure example- Privatization has serious consequences for the slaves,Take the spread of for-profit probation companies, which are relied on by more than 1,000 courts to sentence hundreds of thousands of people to probation, often because of unpaid fines for traffic tickets and other minor infractions. For-profit companies such as Judicial Correction Services don’t charge the courts or towns for their services, which may seem appealing to elected officials. Instead, they make money by tacking on fees to the initial traffic ticket.

    When Americans are unable to pay those fees, they can end up behind bars. In one case, a woman was arrested seven times, served 25 days in jail and paid $640 after writing a check for $28.93 that bounced. [American Exceptionalism-dt]

    Existing services that are privatized also often become much more expensive for consumers, In the Public Interest found.

    Take the GED, a high-school equivalency test that was developed during World War II as a way to help returning U.S. soldiers and sailors demonstrate that they had the basic high school skills employers wanted. It was a pen-and-paper test that cost $30 to take — until it was privatized.

    In 2014, the nonprofit American Council on Education outsourced the test to the for-profit education company Pearson. The cost of taking the GED jumped $120 and switched to computer-based testing. Since then, the number of people taking the GED have plunged by two-thirds, along with the percentage of those who pass it.
    With its latest effort at privatization, the IRS said that its four private collections companies would have to abide by the consumer protection provisions in the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. Yet debt collectors are no strangers to breaking the provisions in the law, with the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau collecting $13 million in 2014 in fines for “egregious debt collection violations.”
    This is the bureau Trump wants to close, so his collections racket can proceed unimpeded. He is best friends with bounty hunters/WWE wrestlers, and sometimes they are both.  
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by dleet on Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:22 am

    John Oliver, Glen Greenwald Brave New Films covers the same police-state tactics levied only on the poor. Plantations are a business after all, and businesses must have rules of behavior. However, I don't know why this is not a human rights violation, or under the umbrella of Extra-Judicial Enforcement that the Philippines are in the news for.
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by Ren's View on Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:23 am

    I have long held that ticketing has little or nothing to do with maintaining order in society. Rather, it's a form tax collection.  States and municipalities now count on it as part of their budgeted revenue stream.

    Privatization is what?  Adding private companies into this tax collection scheme.

    Exactly what happens to people in this process is utterly irrelevant.  The process is based in a sociopathic-based regard for an institutional goal.  Essentially that goal in a simple phrase is institutional survival.  In this case, through a need to support itself with some sort of revenue stream. 

    If you see that this is anti society at base, and absurd at the same time, you might be able to grasp why people might be drawn to someone who seems to bark back, even if that barking is about as absurd and sociopathic itself when analyzed.  All they hear is a barking dog.

    And, unfortunately, Hillary is that bureacrat, even to me.  She's a bonafide representative of that system, and she's telling everyone it's working; all's well, and she will step by step continue to increase it to an even greater degree if she's elected.  That's what people are hearing Trump say.

    The complex system of institutions is broken to the point of absurdity.  When there is no real choice out of a Catch 22, what can people do?

    Plantations are institutions as well. Their survival involves production of some good which is then put into the distribution system in hopes it will bring in a profit for the ongoing survival of the institutions.  Labor is one of the features of that institution's designed purpose, as are the labor costs.  Minimizing labor costs mean more profit.
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by dleet on Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:41 am

    And prison labor, which is also private or private/public partnership. County official contract with the prisons for furniture and whatever else the prisons make, then they charge the taxpayer retail price and split the profit with the prisons, that pay the lobbyists that bribe the legislators that write the laws that privatized and Filled the House that Jack built*

    *Sorry, I got distracted but might try my hand a new version similar.
    The other America, aka Appalachia and an entry in a sociologist's database.
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by dleet on Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:50 pm

    dleet wrote:And prison labor, which is also private or private/public partnership. County official contract with the prisons for furniture and whatever else the prisons make, then they charge the taxpayer retail price and split the profit with the prisons, that pay the lobbyists that bribe the legislators that write the laws that privatized and Filled the House that Jack built*

    *Sorry, I got distracted but might try my hand a new version similar.
    The other America, aka Appalachia and an entry in a sociologist's database.

    What makes one human? wrote:https://youtu.be/cymZq1VblU0
    Empathy is being bred out of the gene pool in some circles, or so it would seem lately. Linguistics is in there @12:00 +/- and @15:00 +/- the importance of close bonding in early childhood is covered. Some countries guarantee 16 months of maternity leave with this notion in mind. Healthy children lead to healthier societies.


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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by Ren's View on Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:57 pm

    dleet wrote:And prison labor, which is also private or private/public partnership. County official contract with the prisons for furniture and whatever else the prisons make, then they charge the taxpayer retail price and split the profit with the prisons, that pay the lobbyists that bribe the legislators that write the laws that privatized and Filled the House that Jack built*

    *Sorry, I got distracted but might try my hand a new version similar.
    The other America, aka Appalachia and an entry in a sociologist's database.

    If I wanted to refer to just two books that could sum up the issues I'm raising in my watching of this apocalyptic era, I would choose:


    1. The Collapse of Complex Societies  by Joseph Tainter
    2. Overshoot: The Ecological Basis of Revolutionary Change by William R. Catton Jr.


    What you are describing to me are instances of failures of complex institutions.  While these are seemingly macro failures in the abstract, at the micro level they will exhibit themselves in all sorts of seemingly random and unfair instances.  This very issue is part of what I'm also thinking of when I speak of surviving our ruling institutions.  As our ruling institutions complexify in their problem solving behaviors, inevitably absorb resources as they expand, thereby over reach their sustainable resource base, they desperately employ strategies to keep themselves "alive" -- to use a term related to biological life in a kind of metaphorical sense.

    Privatization is one of those schemes. Privatization is based on the theory of efficiency that supposedly relates to free enterprise, entrepreneurial vigor in a competitive economic environment with minimal bureaucratic oversight, with the result that "natural" selection weeds out the inefficiencies built into the complex bureaucratizing process itself.  But, what's often ignored in this mythologically-based reasoning, is that a bureaucracy is a bureaucracy is a bureaucracy, whether it's private or not, and all bureaucracies involve energy based complexity of organization, and the need to manage, another energy sponge, all of which rises the cost of achieving something.  All costs come back to the cost of energy. The following comes from simple observation of private and public institutions over time: Quite often private institutions don't achieve any better efficiency in organizing a process than public institutions; they simply find ways to add on costs that they can collect if given the legal means to collect them, until the host itself is destroyed. In many cases it will be the public they prey upon.  What begins, as the resources dwindle, is process that can be identified across species in any ecological system, as drawdown.  What it amounts to is stealing resources from the future in order to maintain the level of organization achieved in the present. 

    When Donald Trump tells his group that's got him this far in a campaign to become president that he will make America great again he's counting on their ignorant belief that the resources are all still here, just as they were when the "new" world was discovered and the first plundering began, and that he can organize the thieving institutions in such a way as to assure them they won't continue to be robbed by them, as many, in these micro instances know they are being robbed.

    This "drawdown" process, as Catton calls it in his ecological language, is a common occurrence that comes about at a very logical and observable stage in the evolution of institutional complexity as described by Tainter, occuring as a regularly cycling collapse of such societies over the past ten thousand years, a period synonymous with the rise of civilization and its experiment with institutional hierarchy as a problem solving mechanism itself.  It comes about because of certain unavoidable factors.  These factors inextricably involve the need to feed the institutions with the energy required to keep them functional. 

    This brings up laws of nature that humans have often managed to convince themselves don't apply to them. All life comes back to something obvious and basic: the exchange of energy.  The laws of thermodynamics are about the need to exchange energy that applies at every level of maintaining life, and it's also the law behind what it takes to keep the machinery of institutions going.  Such laws -- we only know of a few of them -- are irrevocable.  Remove energy, life ends.  Some people can cheat others to maintain their level of survival, as most of industrial civilization has been doing for the past 200 years -- this includes the institution of slavery as one of its strategy -- but they can't cheat the laws of thermodynamics and exist without energy.

    Growth beyond carrying capacity is the overshoot that's the harbinger of collapse.  Before overshoot, there's almost always a desperate scramble to maintain the existing level of organization.  That scramble almost always involves drawdown, or cheating the future species of a means for survival.

    Detailing each and every aspect of the drawdown process of industrial civilization may be helpful in raising consciousness about the actual process itself.  But it can also be an endless distraction, at least once the process has been acknowledged to be taking place. 

    Or course, if the debate is raised that drawdown is not taking place, that we are only experiencing something that's aberrational in a system that is otherwise sustainable, then the details might be useful in terms of finding some further complexity answers in the organization that can solve the aberration. More laws and regulations, perhaps?  I would say that's what has been taking place since the seventies here in the U.S. when it first became apparent that the late, great American empire had run through the energy that made its rising and expanding process from within its own resource base so exuberant. 

    "Exuberant" is a term that can be applied to a species in an ecosystem that experiences exponential population increase due to consumption of available resources. Think of lemmings in that exponential growth phase the go through in regular cycles. 

    For the relatively new nation known as the United States, that exuberant phase probably officially ended at the point the U.S. entered WWI.   The continent its European lemming-like excess population had invaded no longer had frontiers, it had defined limits within which it was confined -- if it wanted to continue its defined and developed form of industrial capitalistic growth.  Which it was decided on high that it did.  Thus, the managers in charge (Woodrow Wilson and company), recognized that the U.S. was not capable of staying free of the the global economic system any longer.  Therefore, it officially became a major player.  Out of that realization we got "benefits" like the P.R. propaganda programs envisioned and developed by Freud's nephew, Eddie Bernays, who was on the Creel Committee Wilson called upon to change public attitude in favor of fighting a European war. What they learned was later borrowed by Nazi Propaganda Minister, Joseph Goebbels, to manipulate that population, a manipulation that led to WWII. 

    But these are just the micro details of how this takes place in complex societies.  The macro perspective is ecological in nature, and has to do with species interaction in a given eco system.  The effect of that interaction will have bearing both on the others species and on the environment itself, because all species create ecological environment.  The proof of that is life itself on this planet and the biosphere that life has created. 

    We now have the U.S. empire to come to understand as a part of this complexity factor.  And so, what has happened to every empire in the past?  Right.   I think empire is a natural phenomenon that occurs when a complex society begins to run out of resources within its own base of operations.  Pretty sure both Tainter and Catton will back me up on that.


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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by Ren's View on Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:08 pm

    dleet wrote:
    dleet wrote:And prison labor, which is also private or private/public partnership. County official contract with the prisons for furniture and whatever else the prisons make, then they charge the taxpayer retail price and split the profit with the prisons, that pay the lobbyists that bribe the legislators that write the laws that privatized and Filled the House that Jack built*

    *Sorry, I got distracted but might try my hand a new version similar.
    The other America, aka Appalachia and an entry in a sociologist's database.

    What makes one human? wrote:https://youtu.be/cymZq1VblU0
    Empathy is being bred out of the gene pool in some circles, or so it would seem lately. Linguistics is in there @12:00 +/- and @15:00 +/- the importance of close bonding in early childhood is covered. Some countries guarantee 16 months of maternity leave with this notion in mind. Healthy children lead to healthier societies.

    As people adapt to the very mechanistic, thus sociopathic nature of behaving within the institutions they've come to rely on for solving their problems, they must give up their other human qualities to survive as institutional beings.  These I find to be the issues that are so riveting in John Ralston Saul's series of works we've been talking about.  That's why I made an effort to share them.   If people can recognize they are giving up their most important heritage just to survive on this animal farm we call civilization, maybe they might begin to look at what that means. 

    I don't think empathy and those other characteristics Raul writes about are being bred out, I think they are simply being turned into vestigial behaviors. Sometimes reduced to entertainment.  Thus trivialized. But under the proper circumstances they do get called upon, and some of these more bizarre behaviors we see are a result of those characteristics struggling to survive within the ecology that is the modern mind.

    I do think, though, that sociopathic behavior is being selected for in modern institutionally ordered societies, which means that those who are the most sociopathic get the most benefits.  But they are still a very tiny percentage of the whole population.
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by dleet on Sat Oct 01, 2016 2:51 pm

    One corrective mechanism in a society is the court system, something the rulers are seeking to restrict through tort reform. Corporate criminals are caught regularly but not subjected to the courts or the courts' tool of punishment.
    ren wrote:I do think, though, that sociopathic behavior is being selected for in modern institutionally ordered societies, which means that those who are the most sociopathic get the most benefits. But they are still a very tiny percentage of the whole population.
    The Hague might play a role. Clear cutters are targeted now. Climate Criminals May be Tried in Court
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by dleet on Sun Oct 02, 2016 3:31 am

    To follow up
    In other climate-related news, a new federal lawsuit takes aim at ExxonMobil in what advocates say is the first legal action targeting the oil giant for its decades-long cover-up of climate change. The suit, by the environmental group Conservation Law Foundation, charges ExxonMobil continues to pollute the Island End and Mystic rivers near Boston, in part by failing to fortify a storage facility to withstand rising seas and extreme weather caused by climate change. Last year, InsideClimate News and the Los Angeles Times revealed that for decades, beginning in 1977, Exxon concealed its own findings that fossil fuels cause global warming, alter the climate and melt Arctic ice.

    Another trend on population growth is the fact that many advanced countries are facing negative population growth within their own majority demographic, or white middle class. Does that mean rising standards of living reduces population growth? If so, tackling poverty through trade and education (which is a trade) might have an impact. The immigrants in many countries are needed, and the US is no different. Their rising standards and contributions at home have reduced world poverty by huge sums. So is that decrease causing higher survival rates and thus an increase in population growth?

    Sadaam diverted whole rivers to create a drought and starve a region. However, strife and conflict that always arise in those regions under siege is almost a CIA operation, or 21st-century smallpox infested blankets, or buffalo slaughter.

    This might just be a degree of optimism to offset my cynicism, but in reality, the human residents of the earth will destroy its habitable regions so my optimism is tempered by 'Just not yet' and kind of pathetic.
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by dleet on Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:36 am

    I think another institution is really a scam.Rehab mogul on 20/20 They are based on 12 steps. Which is Bill's story of finding Jesus and subsequently religious indoctrination paid for by health insurance companies to the tune of 20K for a month-long inpatient program that has a 50% success rate? 40% of abusers quit without rehab* (the number might not be 40 but is significant). The best entrepreneurial startups are within the defined set of private facilities getting government monies (rehab is a big subsidy sponge) or swindling Medicare, Medicaid, and VA recipients, but Jesus approves of said theft because prayer and submission to a higher power and obedience are the goals. Would that be emotional authoritarianism since it's all in one's head? It is to me, but I'm weird, and while not a round peg in a square hole, I am definitely a
    Polyhedron or polyhedra. Now, because I said I'm a poly does that mean I am trans and can use whatever toilet I want? or I am the only poly that does not parrot.

    A Rhombic Triacontahedronis cool.
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by dleet on Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:38 pm

    Another institutional scam is now poverty http://bostonreview.net/us-books-ideas/loomis-daniel-hatcher-the-poverty-industry
    Daniel L. Hatcher’s The Poverty Industry exposes one way that states have responded to the anti-tax climate and diminishing federal funds. Facing budget crises but reluctant to raise taxes, many state politicians treat federal dollars available for poverty-relief programs as an easy mark from which they can mine revenue without political consequence. They divert federal funding earmarked for social programs for children and the elderly, repurposing it for their general funds with the help of private companies that in effect launder money for them. A law professor at the University of Baltimore who has represented Maryland victims of such schemes, Hatcher presents a distressing picture of how states routinely defraud taxpayers of millions of federal dollars.

    This is possible because there is a near-total absence of accountability for how states use federal money intended to fight poverty. Remarkably, states do not even have to pretend to have used all the funds for the stated purpose; they are only required to show that they are taking care of the populations for which the funds were intended. Medicaid, for example, operates as a matching program: states receive federal payments that match state spending on health care for low-income residents. The purpose of this “fiscal federalism” is to merge federal resources with states’ understandings of their own populations’ needs. But the grant system is rife with abuse. The more money that states claim they spend on qualifying Medicaid services, the more federal money they can receive. Hatcher demonstrates how states contract with companies to find ways to claim very high administrative costs for these social programs, which the federal government will reimburse, creating more money they can siphon off into the general fund.

    These private companies are, quite literally, stealing from the poor.
    Exacerbating states’ natural inclination toward grift, private companies have taken power at all stages of the welfare system and have done so with an eye on states’ and their own bottom lines. States almost universally contract with private corporations to administer their welfare programs. Welfare providers, such as hospitals, also hire private companies to help them maximize payment claims. States then hire additional private companies to help them reduce their payouts to providers and increase their claims from the federal government. The federal government hires the same or similar companies to audit Medicaid and other industries and to review state actions. These companies lobby heavily at the state and national levels for their own interests and with little public scrutiny brought to bear on how they conduct their business. Hatcher details how often conflicts of interest and pay-to-play arrangements influence the votes of state politicians, for example. At each step, the companies profit off a system designed to provide a safety net for our most vulnerable citizens. They are, quite literally, stealing from the poor. And although it has the authority to do so, the federal government rarely pursues prosecution against revenue maximization schemes.
    Paul Ayn Rand Ryan wants to block grant Medicaid and eliminate it. Guess who has their greedy fingers on the fed funds that keep the poor from starving but can be squeezed for profit? All of the GOP, just like the Poverty to Prison scam over probation that locks the poor up for 1000s and 1000s over a $2.00 shoplifted beer. Indentured servitude has as long a shelf life in the USA as plantation economies do. An indentured servant sounds better than a slave,...I guess.
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by dleet on Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:08 am

    Why Islamic civilization fell. Neil explains why Britain's postage stamps and US internet addresses have no country of origin. The first of anything requires no identifying country of origin because all others are just copies. No other president will be able to claim they are the 'Asshole in Chief' if the current candidate wins. All because he was the first asshole elected. Custer was vying for the role, didn't work out. He did unify the opposition, similar to the current hi-risk figure.

    FTR, a Hindu Babylonian named Arrabiata invented something very important to math, 0 was his contribution. Genius has been in the news lately, this guy is the true definition. India's first satellite was named for Arrabiatta. That is genius, a guy got a satellite named after him for inventing nothing. Some nothings are more equal than others.
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by Ren's View on Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:14 am

    Here's an interesting, even thought provoking quote involving nothingness, that I found at the beginning of a video about awareness:

    "Emulsified into the backdrop of nothing, awareness reveals the cinematography of the essential you."
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by dleet on Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:37 am

    Neuroscince holds a special interest to me. I like that gal and her book is out this month. I liked SciAm's 'Mind' magazine for neurological input for laymen. The concentration of brain activity and condensed brains parallels the cyber evolution as devices get smaller. Our brains will fill the space freed due to concentration (both meanings) with thicker skulls, and more cushioning fat to protect us from the things we choose to do. Things that earn us money for abusing the very thing we'll need to lead a fulfilling life.

    Suppose a one man or one woman show was, in reality, a suicide show. No encores of course, but no one knows how it will play because rehearsals were a problem, too. The stand-ins  were getting scared and "I forgot my lines" only works once since there are strategically placed teleprompters all over the stage.

    btw, the line from the poem about seeing the suffering poor as if  they are an exhibit to marvel over or just to amuse us was the spirit I think you mentioned in the Cuba thread and also the recent satirical piece with jokes that only intellectuals get. I could be wrong, but I was caught by surprise because I had not done my own moral inventory for awhile. I caught myself or my asshole self, spewing Muslim spin in front of a Muslim from Indonesia. I didn't know it, but after I slammed his religion another guy sitting at out table did a survey of everyone's religion at the table and he said Muslim, without batting an eye or acknowledging my offensive rant. I was in HI at the time and been reading for the previous 5 years the WaPo in DC. Looking at the number of stories and the number of negative stories with Muslim/Islam in a paper's main body was enlightening. I had been brainwashed and didn't know it.
    However, I still have no respect for the deplorable xenophobes, and don't care to foster any. The GOP is outraged that xenophobes, bigots, and racists are not welcomed with open arms simply because they are Americans. Nationalist attitudes must take precedence over civil behavior and common decency.
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by Ren's View on Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:05 pm

    dleet wrote:

    Neuroscince holds a special interest to me. I like that gal and her book is out this month.


    You lost me.  What gal?

    dleet wrote:

    btw, the line from the poem about seeing the suffering poor as if  they are an exhibit to marvel over or just to amuse us was the spirit I think you mentioned in the Cuba thread and also the recent satirical piece with jokes that only intellectuals get. I could be wrong, but I was caught by surprise because I had not done my own moral inventory for awhile. I caught myself or my asshole self, spewing Muslim spin in front of a Muslim from Indonesia. I didn't know it, but after I slammed his religion another guy sitting at out table did a survey of everyone's religion at the table and he said Muslim, without batting an eye or acknowledging my offensive rant. I was in HI at the time and been reading for the previous 5 years the WaPo in DC. Looking at the number of stories and the number of negative stories with Muslim/Islam in a paper's main body was enlightening. I had been brainwashed and didn't know it.

    However, I still have no respect for the deplorable xenophobes, and don't care to foster any. The GOP is outraged that xenophobes, bigots, and racists are not welcomed with open arms simply because they are Americans. Nationalist attitudes must take precedence over civil behavior and common decency.


    I think it can be extremely difficult to see that we are brainwashed.

    In terms of the Xenophobe, bigot, and racist issue, I think such behaviors may fall under the mindset of those who are not self aware. But then self aware, or awareness itself, is another matter that bears on the issue of institutional classification. The actuality of being self aware cannot be objectively defined and clinically observed.  It is ultimately restricted to the subjective state of the person claiming to be.  This also brings up the issue of institutionally deciding to categorize religious fundamentalism (as an individually-held world view, not apparently as a religion or a cult indoctrination system itself) as a clinical classification in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. Like the 2 people in the HUFFPOST LIVE video in your link while interviewing Jaweed Kaleem point out, the doing so can take us down a slippery slope.

    Also, there can be a number of problems in trying to be objective about our own sense of morality and how that morality emerges in our behavior out of our individual ethical foundations.  It's kind of like the people who grow up with institutional racism as a kind of cultural norm, and then, after having that normative behavior pointed out to them, they may go about trying to be politically correct. Meanwhile, what exactly do they do about becoming aware of that PC behavior from the point of view of the folks upon who are the actual recipients of that institutionalized way of behaving, in all the subtle ways that tend to slip by the awareness of those who have employed it, probably more unconsciously than not, as a kind of normative behavior throughout their lives?

    Meanwhile, (I offered this example on another thread, but it bears on this conversation as well) what sort of legitimate response can our institutional way of defining the norms of society make to the legality of home schooling, the fact that home schooling here in the U.S. is about 75% religious-based, and that we have a teacher who is both the parent, who may very well be a religious fundamentalist who believes that Creationism is the only explanation that answers all the questions, and then programs that into her child's mind at this early stage in their intellectually formative period of life?  All the examples in the following video raise some version of this question, but go to the 6:50 minute mark to see the example I specifically cited about home schooling. It begins with a shot of the cover of a text book: Exploring Creation With Physical Science:

    Religion: Brainwashing the kids since the Bronze Age




    I'm just wondering, how do we go about separating freedom of religion for a thinking, mature adult from freedom to program a child by a supposedly thinking mature adult.  All the constitution can do is protect our right to be whatever we, as adults, choose to be.  Be that fundamentalist, racist, bigot, open minded and empathetic towards all, or whatever.  Can it protect us from being programmed by whatever the source until we become that adult?  It's as serious as asking if women have the right to terminate a pregnancy when the right wing religious conservative believes he or she is protecting the rights of the preborn to life itself.
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by dleet on Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:28 am

    This gal  
    An Oxford University researcher and author specializing in neuroscience has suggested that one day religious fundamentalism may be treated as a curable mental illness.
    Kathleen Taylor, who describes herself as a “science writer affiliated to the Department of Physiology, Anatomy and Genetics,” made the suggestion during a presentation on brain research at the Hay Literary Festival in Wales on Wednesday.
    I like the categorization exercise and had just called trump a political porn star. He has said
    this week all of his insulting comments and attitudes about all the women in his life and for all his life is just because he's an entertainer. As if entertainment does not affect attitudes and behaviors due to those attitudes. A lot of society cannot tell the difference between entertainment and reality. Fox is entertaining to some, but that's all it is and the Flintstones are not a real history lesson, either.


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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by Ren's View on Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:05 am

    I thought so.  What confuses me is your claim that she's coming out with a book this month, I can't find any evidence of that.  Do you have a link? 

    She has three books out that interest me so far, last one came out 2012.  I've got the Brainwashing book on Kindle because it relates to my long running exploration into PR and mass propaganda. Cruelty isn't available in electronic form yet, but that one looks especially pertinent to what's taking place in American politics right at the moment.  Trump supporters horrify Aurora, IN residents with parade float depicting Clinton execution
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by dleet on Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:24 am

    I'll take a look.
    Tech and Authoritarianism:  https://youtu.be/rhvcn4h7l1k a Saul lecture from '14. Have we posted this before? I just came across it after Hedges' interview.
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by Ren's View on Sun Oct 09, 2016 5:34 pm

    No, we haven't posted that one before this.  I got part way through so far, looks good.
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by dleet on Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:46 am

    http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/environmental-disaster-feared-from-nc-floods-783203907618 Coal ash, pigs, pig shit, chickens, chicken shit and levees to breach, but Duke Energy has it all under control. Coal ash is usually associated with mountaintop bombing.
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by dleet on Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:19 am

    An institutional fix with an institution might be manifesting in University Press and activists attuned to social media and journalistic desires.  http://www.cjr.org/ 
    The GOP are afraid of them because they ARE educated and familiar with the propaganda model. That's why they are being denied their right to vote by red state governors and legislators.
    Harvard students picked the USA as the #1 threat to world stability.

    http://www.cjr.org/  Columbia Journalism Review has analysed the theater performance from all sides.
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by Ren's View on Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:41 am

    dleet wrote:http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/environmental-disaster-feared-from-nc-floods-783203907618 Coal ash, pigs, pig shit, chickens, chicken shit and levees to breach, but Duke Energy has it all under control. Coal ash is usually associated with mountaintop bombing.



    Rachel Maddow reports on devastating and deadly flooding in North Carolina following Hurricane Matthew and notes concerns by environmentalists and flooded rivers that wash through farms and coal ash sites could spread toxins through miles of waterways.



    This concern, by "environmentalists" expressed by Rachael Maddow, has been a common concern for decades.  Environmentalists continue to be a marginalized group with little or no public respect as a group, but generally receive a response for their concerns bordering on ridicule. If there is no major party in a duopolistic party system to back them, their concerns are thus relegated to a minor party with about a two percent backing by the public.  Even the liberatarian/Ayn Rand party gets more support. This attitude towards environmental concerns was carefully programmed into the public even before Reagan was elected.  It's how a growing concern for the environment was spit and turned into a growing concern for "bad" government and its overall ineptitude and costliness that must be defeated before good and patriotic Americans lose their country; A large and ignorant sector of these patriots can be symbolized by a clown who that sector appears to want to emulate rather than reject out of horror.. 

    Juan Cole's version

    Noam Chomsky's version:




    Rachel's concern is not, therefore, expressed by the corporate-owned and controlled mainstream press's coverage of these events.  As MSNBC is corporate owned and controlled, we may then have what appears to be an anomaly, or an instance of cognitive dissonance with its willingness to allow someone like Rachael to express what appear to be liberal views.  Don't be fooled.  She's on a chain and she is more like a symbolic offering to the liberal viewers of MSNBC's audience while at the same time giving some substance to the argument that the press is liberal and twisted against conservatives.  Much more radical and more insightful analysis will be found in an alternative press that will never be part of the corporate mainstream, most dedicated to sharing their truth are barely surviving on the Internet these days.  They tend to rely on donations from a public that is increasingly receiving less and less of their share of the public wealth, while their cost of living rises.

    Therefore, I don't see how the public can begin to learn that these wastes and their methods of storage are a common occurrence in the industrial society they live in and depend upon for sustaining their daily lives, which, because most can envision no alternative way of life since this is the epitome of human evolution, is all they really have to consider for their survival, which is why so many truly critical analysts of the system see them as the most passive population of the entire civilized populations since this experiment began ten thousand years ago.  (See: Technology and the Rise of Authoritarianism by John Ralston Saul )



    The EPA can now do very little about it. It has been systematically defanged over the past 46 years since it was created so that what it actually has the power to do falls within layers of barbed wire topped fences under guard towers manned by corporate goons.  Actions from the Federal level run into a quagmire of local and state reactions to any federal efforts to bring industries (agriculture and otherwise) into line with these rather impotent regulations.  Ignorant working class bozos who have no union affiliations -- now that those have been successfully neutered by the Republicans -- are left with the programming of corporate media as their guide for public political behavior. The result has been the rise of an extremist right associated with the notion of the anti-corporate Boston Tea Party.  You gotta love the level of irony in that.

    Once stored pollutants -- that no one is told about by the corporate media with news that is manufactured by a management/editorial hierarchy designed to ignore such conditions, and is often posed to the public as if being told about these pollutants is actually a form of threat to their individual independence imposed upon them by an inept, communist dictatorship-like government led by a Muslim president who wasn't even born in the USA -- are unleashed then there's no putting the polluted genie back in the bottle.  It flows into the environment, seeps in and builds up.  The environment becomes a degree more polluted and toxic each time.

    The same inept waste storage processes continue, since no public outcry against these corporate owned and controlled processes can organize to do much about it.  After all, doing something about it may kill your job, may cut off the coal-generated power to your home, and so forth. Storage facilities fill with pollutants until the next catastrophe, and then they are unleashed once again, and more pollutants build up; the pattern continues, wait, repeat, wait repeat.  Storms are a natural, or to some a God-caused process, after all, and the power of the storms with more and more capacity to carry water to unleash upon the land is not a human-caused problem so there's nothing to be done about that.  After all, environmentalists are a bunch of crazies brainwashed by the Chinese, much like the Manchurian Candidate was.

    The institutional system itself and people's acquiescence to it keep it going.  Corporate management so far successfully manages, as decried by Sheldon Wolin. That's the reality I've been watching for years.  I'm probably even more marginalized than the alternative press that's barely surviving on the Internet, so what I have to say is even less likely to be paid attention to.
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by dleet on Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:42 am

    http://www.cjr.org/united_states_project/scott_reinardy_journalisms_lost_generation_book.php  Funeral? autopsy? Hospice care? psychiatric rehab? such is journalism's dilemma as some of the highest rated  broadcast or e-print is cable nonsense from known fraudsters. Olberman relayed a conversation he had with Cliven Bundy accolade Hannity. He thanked Keith for telling the truth that was despicable, but for him was good publicity. He would return the favor if he wanted Sean to shit in his hot tub anytime (metaphorically).
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by Ren's View on Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:45 am

    dleet wrote:An institutional fix with an institution might be manifesting in University Press and activists attuned to social media and journalistic desires.  http://www.cjr.org/ 
    The GOP are afraid of them because they ARE educated and familiar with the propaganda model. That's why they are being denied their right to vote by red state governors and legislators.
    Harvard students picked the USA as the #1 threat to world stability.

    http://www.cjr.org/  Columbia Journalism Review has analysed the theater performance from all sides.


    This is the article your link takes me to: Biting off more ‘informal language’ than you can chew.

    You're going to have to explain to me how that is an institutional fix.  I don't get the connection. I did a search for "University Press" within the CJR and got a 2014 "university press" tagged article: Calling all entries for Best Business Writing 2014.

    Harvard students aren't the only ones who see the USA as the #1 threat to world stability.  But it would be interesting to see the article that describes how they came to see it that way.  I'm not going to read them all just to find out, though.

    Is the "covering the election" tab at the top that shows your link's topic area what you mean by theater in "analyzing the theater performance from all sides"?
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by Ren's View on Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:49 am

    dleet wrote:http://www.cjr.org/united_states_project/scott_reinardy_journalisms_lost_generation_book.php  Funeral? autopsy? Hospice care? psychiatric rehab? such is journalism's dilemma as some of the highest rated  broadcast or e-print is cable nonsense from known fraudsters. Olberman relayed a conversation he had with Cliven Bundy accolade Hannity. He thanked Keith for telling the truth that was despicable, but for him was good publicity. He would return the favor if he wanted Sean to shit in his hot tub anytime (metaphorically).

    More than ten years ago at Thom's I did a series on the decline of journalism in the U.S., including the statistical conclusions that it is one of the least satisfying and lowest paid professions with the greatest level of burnout.  I'm glad someone is finally catching up.
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by dleet on Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:26 am

    This election coverage has to be a theater review for me just to maintain a bit of calm. Satirical calm is very soothing.
    Science's take on small town emigration. is a current social science entry for the curious among us  to file.
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by Ren's View on Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:41 am

    dleet wrote:This election coverage has to be a theater review for me just to maintain a bit of calm. Satirical calm is very soothing.
    Science's take on small town emigration. is a current social science entry for the curious among us  to file.

    Lol.  I always get a kick out my own misinterpretation of the first line in an essay. That of course corrects itself if I keep reading, but I still enjoy and retain that first erroneous impression:

    Trisha Leigh Zeigenhorn wrote:

    America was built on the concept of Manifest Destiny. We look up to the people who took big chances, who struck out on their own...


    Indeed, the way I hope Donald Trump is striking out on his own.  Let's just hope that those who "look up to him" aren't enough to vote him in and he goes down swinging like Casey at the Bat.

    Trisha Leigh Zeigenhorn wrote:

    The idea that adventure, betterment, and success can only be found if one has the courage to leave home has been such a part of who we are as a country that the opposite – stagnation – has turned into a big, loser-y joke.


    Well, I have to point out that the part that's missing from that idea is the language of ecology.  When you talk about species filling a niche, then you get to what happens when the niche is full (ie, running out of resources to feed the species) but the population is still expanding.  You could picture the famous lemmings jumping into the sea.  Or you could envision Europe and the colonization of the planet that began when Columbus took the risk of finding a short cut to India and discovered a continent. 

    Unlike lemmings who don't have a built in DNA strategy for colonizing other niches, Europeans, who had begun to fill the European continent's niche to the brink, could momentarily stop killing each other in their home town villages and rush to this new niche.  Ignore the poor bastards who are already there, they didn't have the niche expansion tools needed that might have warded off these invaders.  The creation of complex institutions that would produce organized armies, for instance.  And that idea of filling the frontier was, as humans like to do with their ideation-creating tool of language, put in terms of an institutional banner idea of greatness: Manifest Destiny.  An idea that the human/lemmings could raise, wave and cheer about as they swarmed across and began filling the relatively empty continent, creating new niche expanding tools as they went, fulfilling the industrial revolution begun in their homeland. 

    Manifest Destiny.  Hah.  The great cornucopian myth.  In actuality, it's just another word for a lemming-like species expansion all over the globe, otherwise known as 'Progress' with a capital P.  There you go, progressives, a visual of the etymological root of your own group description now that liberalism is a dead niche concept, taken over by a new niche concept referred to as neoliberalism, with the subtext, globalism.
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    Re: Understanding how we conceive ruling institutions so we can outlive them

    Post by Ren's View on Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:42 am

    Ok, as to the actual article doug linked, I posted this futurisic article published November of 2015 elsewhere today: Splinterlands: The View from 2050.

    Doug's article talks about how demographics of movement have been changing from an expansionistic, cosmopolitan mentality to a stay at home mentality.  Ecologically speaking again, that's interesting.  The frontier borders have been reached through a long colonialization process.  Colonies went from being colonies to becoming nation states to a globalization process that included a neoliberal economic aspect along with a pressure for a taming of the anarchy of national competition through a more global management structure.  Pressure towards legitimizing the rule of law from a United Nations perspective is growing to deal with mass immigration patterns, war and amidst that we have this stay at home, entrench oneself with those of like mind behaviors. 

    Splinterlands envisions looking back at the current election circus as an element of a regional reaction in many nation states, of many stay home anti cosmopolitans, against the very idea of allowing an international body like the UN to govern their home town in any way, and in the process governing the mass migrations that have begun thanks to limiting of niche territories, war, effects of global warming, effects of ecological destruction, and many other factors that have been building to this point.

    I can't help but think about that as a problem of ecological succession for one very dominant, very flexible niche dominating species.

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